"We Are the Pests": An Interview with Cheryl Smart

Cheryl Smart is a final year MFA candidate studying Creative Nonfiction at the University of Memphis, where she is recipient of the 2015 Creative Writing Award in Nonfiction. She is current Managing Editor, past Assistant Managing and past Nonfiction Editor of The Pinch. She has publications in The Collagist, Gulf Coast, Cleaver Magazine, Word Riot, Appalachian Heritage, Little Patuxent Review, The Citron Review, Pine Hills Review, Apeiron Review, and others. Her essay, "Horses in the Wrinkle" has been nominated for The Best American Essays 2016. See cherylsmartwriter.com to read other works.

Her essay, "Dissonance," appeared in Issue Seventy-Five of The Collagist.

Here, Cheryl Smart talks with interviewer William Hoffacker about personal essays in third person, rural life, and the Memphis Zoo.

What can you tell us about the origins of your essay “Dissonance”? What sparked the initial idea and caused you to start writing the first draft?

I was born in Memphis, but I grew up on a family farm well outside Memphis—seventy miles due east of here. Our small town was about as rural as they come. My family was fully isolated out there. From our farmhouse, there were no other homes in sight. My father taught, promoted, and expected peaceful living among the wildlife. I returned to Memphis briefly in the eighties. At that time, there was still a good bit of space in surrounding areas, leaving room for wildlife to exist. In fact, in 1987, my first ‘real’ job was as a receptionist in the only building around for miles on what is now a 6-lane bustling, bumper-to-bumper, make-sure-you-have-enough-gas-to-sit-in-traffic-for-an-hour main thoroughfare of Memphis. The urban sprawl and rapid growth has been nearly unbelievable. I moved back to the city five years ago to study creative writing at the University of Memphis. The effects upon the wildlife population of over-development within and around Memphis are disturbingly clear. Spending time in Memphis again made the careless treatment and disregard of animals in this area become more and more a burden to me. Because I know better. It began to seem that everywhere I went in the city on any given day, I could see some innocent animal paying the cost for our ‘growth’—sometimes to the point of its very life. Such as with the sparrow, which is what prompted me to start writing. I needed to speak out.

Even though your piece is nonfiction, it is written in the third person. I have to assume that the “she” of the essay is, in fact, you. If so, why did you decide to write about yourself in the third person? (If not, who is the “she” of this essay really?)

You are correct in assuming the “she” of the essay is me. The initial draft of “Dissonance” was written in first person. I usually revise a draft several times. Each time I went back to revise this particular essay, reading the first-hand account was too distressing. It stirred up so much shame that it was hard for me to concentrate on revision. It’s not my nature to treat animals like they are insignificant in this world, but just by being here in this city, in these conditions we’ve created for ourselves and the wildlife here, I’m part of it. It’s hard to think about being a part of such casual treatment of animals. That kind of guilt is a positive thing when it spurs action and effort to right a wrong. My starting place was no amazing deed to fight against the poor treatment of animals in and around Memphis. I haven’t chained myself to trees, boycotted local steakhouses, or splashed red paint onto fur coat fans. My starting place was to use what was available to me—my writing ability—to spread awareness of the problem. In order to write this piece really well, I needed to distance myself from the story. I thought the third person POV would just get me through revision and I’d write the final draft in first person. But once I had written the last draft, third person felt right for the piece.

The “dissonance” of the title is, I think, that between nature and the city, as felt by the speaker/subject who has interacted with wildlife in both rural and suburban environments. I sense a longing for communion with the natural world that is inhibited by life in Memphis. Many writers have had a lot to say about these themes and desires. What do you think you bring to the conversation about nature and wildlife vs. modern living?

I’m certainly not talking about anything new in the essay, “Dissonance.” The messy human footprint man leaves has been written about and talked about in our country since the first settlers began to impact the world they saw as theirs by birthright, by being white and Christian and favored by God—Manifest Destiny and all that. Recently, I read “The Pioneers” by James Fenimore Cooper, published in 1823. The narrator talks about the pioneers destroying land by felling too many trees, killing too much large and small game, fishing lakes dry, driving out Native Americans who lived off the land more respectfully. How we push wildlife out of its natural habitats nowadays is probably not that much different from how the settlers pushed Native Americans out of their homelands centuries ago. We see something we want, we take it, we make what or who had it first leave. Having spent my entire life within a seventy mile radius of Memphis, I’ve heard about or watched this very thing happen in and around this great city. One of the worst instances of encroaching the natural habitat of wildlife indigenous to this area concerns Overton Park and one of few remaining old growth forests.

The Memphis Zoo needed to expand to include a new exhibit called Teton Trek which would house new animals, among them Timber Wolves, Grizzly Bears, and Elk. In order to do this, the Memphis Zoo clear cut several acres of old growth forest, destroying the natural habitat of the animals living there to create a new artificial habitat for the incoming non-indigenous animals to be displayed. It seems shameful, right? Pretty cut and dried. But there is a lot of ambivalence about it here. The Memphis Zoo is ranked as one of the top five zoos in the country. The Memphis Zoo is revenue, revenue our city needs. So, it’s a bitter paradox.

What I bring to the conversation about nature and wildlife vs. modern living is a dual perspective on the situation. I understand that we—people, we—need to be here. I also understand that they—wildlife, they—need to be here as well. Having been raised in an intensely rural environment, and in the manner in which I was raised there, taught me how to live more harmoniously with animals than what I am seeing here in areas with a greater human population. I believe it’s possible to live in these spaces in a way that respects wildlife if we’d just change our mindset. It seems to me that people in the city see wildlife differently than people in rural areas do. In most cases, country people don’t see wildlife as a threat, whereas city people oftentimes do. This is the mindset that needs to be changed. We need to be open to sharing our spaces with other creatures besides ourselves. If armadillos are rooting in our yards for beetles, let’s not bash them in their heads with rocks and call pest control. Learn to share. Our yards will recover. Dirt goes back just the way it was before with a little tamping down. In fact, this jostling of the ground is good for impacted soil in that it produces much needed aeration.

When little creatures—birds, squirrels, chipmunks—dart across our paths while we’re racing from this place to that one, slow down and give the little guys time to get where they’re going. When raccoons raid our trash bins because they are hungry, please…please don’t name them pests, trap them in cages, and drown them in backyard pools. We are the pests. Put a bungee cord on the fucking trash bin and sleep more soundly at night in the knowledge that some small effort was made to fight against the terrorizing and killing of non-human beings in the pursuit of making human life easier.

I have a friend living here in the city in a neighborhood even more compact than mine. She puts out food in her backyard for a visiting fox, opossum, raccoons, birds, and squirrels. She calls them her ‘wild babies’ or ‘outdoor kids’ and feeds them every day and night. They don’t ‘pester’ her. They have a mutual understanding. They share space.

Can you describe your revision process for this essay? How did it change from the first draft to the final? Did you have to make any tough decisions along the way?

My revision process is usually pretty instinctual. I just keep going back to a piece until it feels complete. One tough decision I made with “Dissonance” was to keep the essay in third person. I had intended for the polished draft to go back to first person. As a creative nonfiction writer, these are my stories. I want to give them to the world as my unique experiences. I felt that readers could more easily see themselves in this story though if it remained in third person. A first person narrative leaves no room to speculate on whose story is being presented. A third person narrative does leave room for speculation—whose story is this I’m reading? Could be anyone’s story…could be mine. That’s what I wanted. For people to see themselves in this story, so in order to do that, I needed to have less of myself in it. The way to do that was through third person POV.

What writing projects are you working on now?

I’ve been fine-tuning a collection of essays about my upbringing that illustrates the delights as well as the complexities of southern rural living in a bygone era. I also have a few essays I wrote last semester in a creative nonfiction workshop that I’m revising. I love writing essays. Lots of hometown people keep asking when I plan to write a book. I’m writing one now. A book of essays though because I’m really more of an essayist than I am a writer of books.

What have you read recently that you’d like to recommend?

Recently, I read “Bettyville” by George Hodgman. I met George at the Southern Festival of Books in Nashville last fall. He was reading on a panel with Harrison Scott Key (yes, yes of the lineage of Francis Scott Key) and so I went to hear them read. Afterward, George signed my book and we spoke a few moments. Before I even knew much about his book, I recognized small town charm right away. Once I began reading “Bettyville,” Hodgman adeptly sunk me into rural places not unlike that of my own hometown. He really draws rural America well. The book is flooded with description and details so vivid that if you know nothing of rural living, when you’re done reading, you will. And it’s warm, funny, sad. I laughed and cried and am a better person (and writer) for having read this book.

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"Carving the Story Very Close to the Bone": An Interview with Kirstin Valdez Quade

Kirstin Valdez Quade is the author of Night at the Fiestas, which was a New York Times Notable Book and received a “5 Under 35” award from the National Book Foundation and the John Leonard Prize from the National Book Critics Circle. She is the recipient of the Rona Jaffe Foundation Writer’s Award and the 2013 Narrative Prize. Her work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Best American Short Stories, The O. Henry Prize Stories, and elsewhere. She was a Wallace Stegner at Stanford University, where she also taught as a Jones Lecturer. She’s been on the faculty in the M.F.A. programs at University of Michigan and Warren Wilson. Beginning in 2016, she will be an assistant professor at Princeton University.

Her story, "Flight," appeared in Issue Seventy-Four of The Collagist.

Here, Kirstin Valdez Quade talks with interviewer William Hoffacker about siblings, humor, and chickens.

What can you tell us about the origins of your story “Flight”? What sparked the initial idea and caused you to start writing the first draft?

This story had its seed in a detail a friend told me about frozen chickens being used to test plane engines. The image delighted me; I loved the absurdity of a naked, pocky, raw chicken having any place in the high stakes world of aviation engineering,

I also couldn’t help thinking about the horror of live birds being sucked into engines—and the more appalling horror of a bird possibly taking the plane down. I’m sitting on a plane as I write this, so actually I might just stop right there.

Your sense of humor shines through in this story, from the central image of frozen birds chucked into a plane engine to the mother’s statements such as “There’s physics involved.” How do you balance levity with serious subjects like family tensions and alcoholism? What’s the importance of humor in a story like this?

In my experience, humor and pathos go hand in hand. Even in the darkest periods of our lives—maybe especially in those dark periods—there are moments of absurdity and humor. In this story, the mother’s hope is misplaced, and absurd, maybe, but it’s also an expression of her love for her son, which I have to admire.

My favorite writers are very funny about incredibly painful material: Lorrie Moore, Antonya Nelson, and George Saunders come to mind. Flannery O’Connor keeps you laughing until the moment everything turns and your heart snaps in two.

Despite its richness of detail and insight into the characters’ histories, the entire story contains fewer than 500 words. How do you achieve this economy of language? Does it require a lot of revision and/or restraint to write with such brevity?

I tend to write long stories, to delve into backstory and follow digressions, so this piece was a challenge for me. I always intended the story to be a short-short, and from the beginning I treated it as an exercise in compression. My initial draft was maybe a couple hundred words longer. I enjoyed the process of carving the story very close to the bone, of cutting out any language that was limp or extraneous.

In the final paragraph, the narrator is approaching her/his brother, and the story ends before they make contact. How did you decide that the story should end in this moment on the cusp of an event? Why does the reader never get to see the narrator interact with the brother whom s/he says so much about?

If the story were longer, I would certainly be interested in seeing how these adult siblings interact. I imagine their relationship is strained by judgments and resentments and jealousies—and that there’s a lot of love between them, too. I imagine these tensions lie just under the surface and that they have to constantly navigate them as they speak to each other.

This particular story, however, isn’t about their relationship, not really. Rather, the story is about how the sister thinks and speaks about her brother, who is, on some level, lost to her. She judges him, yes, but she misses him, too, which is why she imagines him so closely. Imagining him a year down the road in his coveralls, sticking with his classes, getting his license—it’s an expression of hope that he’ll get his life together.

It occurs to me now that the title doesn’t just refer to the flight of the chickens and planes, or of her brother’s aspirations, but also to the speaker’s own flight of imagination.

What writing projects are you working on now?

I’m at work on a novel, which also deals with tensions between siblings. I’m superstitious about talking about work in progress, but it centers on a family in New Mexico

What have you read recently that you’d like to recommend?

I just finished Tessa Hadley’s The Past. It’s a gorgeous book—Hadley is so incredibly observant of her characters. Her prose is sharp, patient, and darkly funny. As I read, I kept experiencing that exhilarating cocktail of envy and admiration. I want to write like that.

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"On the Way from Kidhood to Independence": An Interview with Henry Hoke

Henry Hoke wrote The Book of Endless Sleepovers (out in October from Civil Coping Mechanisms) and Genevieves (winner of the Subito Press prose contest, forthcoming 2017). Some of his stories appear in The Fanzine, Entropy, Gigantic and PANK. He co-created and directs Enter>text, a living literary journal in Los Angeles. His website is henry-hoke.com, and his twitter is @ennuiperkins.

His story, "Surprise Island," appeared in Issue Seventy-Three of The Collagist.

Here, Henry Hoke talks with interviewer William Hoffacker about setting, family dynamics, and turning memory into fiction.

What can you tell us about the origins of your story “Surprise Island”? What sparked the initial idea and caused you to start writing the first draft?

The origin was a real night with my brother and cousins on our dock in Alabama, back in the day. It was a very potent moment, on the way from kidhood to independence. A lot of the dialogue is pulled from that evening, though the story is fiction. When I freed myself from the memories and mapped out how the plot would go, the actual writing started.

The four central characters of this story have nicknames only—Older Bro, Cuz, Weeza, and Little Bro. Why was it important to you that the narrator not use their real names? Did you think of them more as archetypes or as individuals when you were writing them?

They’re definitely individuals, but I tend to avoid real names in my stories. I’m more interested in how characters are positioned in relation to one another, the dynamics, family or otherwise, that their titles represent. It keeps things a little more open and elusive, allows me to shift their shapes.

The first paragraph stands out from the rest of the story, italicized and using a second-person voice that does not reappear. How did you decide this outlier was a necessary part of the story? What effect did you intend it to have on the reader?

This is one of the nine stories in my forthcoming book Genevieves, and each begins with an italicized intro, often in a distinct voice.

The first paragraph in “Surprise Island” is the voice of the parents, a voice that is likely echoing in the heads of the characters. The voice of the parents is the voice of expectation and history, so it’s something for the kids to butt up against. The intro also functions as a kind of aerial shot that we zoom in from, both spatially and chronologically.

Setting plays a crucial role in this story. The kids belong so much to the lake, the dock, the disappearing island, they almost feel like a result or an extension of the place. How do you describe a place in such a way that it seems recognizable yet unique? How do you make setting into an essential, living part of the story?

I’m into the idea of the perpetual quality of short fiction, how it preserves characters in a place and moment, so I love the idea of the kids as extension of their surroundings.

I think the family’s idiosyncratic signifiers for various elements of the lake, titles and tales that get passed down into myth, gives an odd fictional quality to the broader reference points of dock, woods, house, water. I wanted to make the world the cousins inhabit alive with potential, each area around them activated with story or danger, because I think this plays such a huge role in how we order the world in childhood. Many elements of the setting are taken directly from life and could’ve evolved into plot points. Surprise Island, as my family has called it for a long time, became the center because it connects to all the kids’ impulses (the boys’ competitive scheming and Weeza’s desire for mystery).

This setting’s been at the heart of a lot of almost-stories over the past couple years, a screenplay, even. I finally had to jump in. Since I’ve been there in life, I just go back in my head.

What writing projects are you working on now?

My first two short story collections are due out in the next year, so come spring and summer I’ll get down to business with the publishers. Between now and then I’m writing my first novel, although to overcome the daunt I’m trying to think of it more like a sprawling prose-poetry collection, and approach the writing that way. It’s about immortal film students.

What have you read recently that you’d like to recommend?

Last year I chiefly purchased new work by friends and acquaintances, and it was a fantastic year of reading. The poetry debuts I was most anticipating were Ansel Elkins’ Blue Yodel and Robin Coste Lewis’ Voyage of the Sable Venus, and both were revelations. Essential. For fiction, Katherine Faw Morris’ Young God wrecked me, and for memoir Janice Lee’s Reconsolidation wields critical vitality and creation in the face of real-life wreckage. The most fun I had was probably with Sawako Nakayasu’s The Ants. I have a big new bedside stack of stuff to devour now and it makes me happy. I spent a sleepless night last week reading Saeed Jones’ phenomenal Prelude to Bruise. The longer prose piece “History, According to Boy” near the end is an absolute supernova.

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"Misshapen, Distorted, Imperfect, Flawed": An Interview with Kathryn Scanlan

Kathryn Scanlan’s work has appeared or is forthcoming in NOON, Fence, American Short Fiction, Tin House, Two Serious Ladies, Caketrain, and The Iowa Review, among other places. She lives in Los Angeles.

Her story, "A Deformity Story," appeared in Issue Seventy-Six of The Collagist.

Here, Kathryn Scanlan talks with interviewer William Hoffacker about first-person narrators, deformity, and wanting to tell an inappropriate story.

What can you tell us about the origins of your story “A Deformity Story”? What sparked the initial idea and caused you to start writing the first draft?

The story began in a way similar to how it begins—a conversation I was marginally involved in whilst thinking of other things. I had a story I wanted to tell but it was unwieldy and without any kind of punch or pithiness to it, not something that would go over well in that particular situation. I stopped listening to the others and tried to figure out how to shape the story in a succinct and interesting way. Then the conversation changed topics and my window closed, but I was still thinking of my untold story, still trying to construct it, and after work (for this happened at work), I started a draft.

The reader learns very little about the first-person narrators biographical information (i.e., gender, age, occupation, etc.). As the author, do you need to know these details before you can create the characters voice? How much information about this characters life have you invented that the reader is not privy to?

No, definitely not. I’ve not invented anything the reader is not privy to, and in general I’d say I’m pretty wary of the idea of “inventing a character”—that has always felt fairly false to me. I like to narrate in the first person because it feels simultaneously intimate and secretive. And the “I” can be so all-encompassing—a roving, wild sort of thing that can go anywhere, be anyone.

The opening paragraph has a hook that really worked on me: “At lunch we were talking of hand deformities and I had a story I wanted to tell. I had half an ear on the conversation but mostly was thinking of how I would enter it.” I could relate to this feeling so much that I immediately sympathized with the narrator. Why did you decide to frame the story of the narrators encounter with the deformed cashier as a tale that s/he wants to tell his/her friends? How do you think that decision affects how the reader receives the story?

I became interested in the idea of a story that seems somehow wrong or inappropriate or not worth sharing in a social situation, and of how this is sort of the crux of writing fiction, at least for me. I wanted to write a story about wanting to tell a story. I wanted the telling of the story to fail in the fictional world yet still reach the reader more or less intact.

So lets talk about deformity. Why do you think this group of friends is discussing hand deformities in the first place? What makes physical deformity seem like the type of subject worthy of not only our attention but also the sort of competitive storytelling that these friends are engaged in?

Deformity became an idea for me that could inform not only the subject of the story, but also—in a broader, more general sense—describe its shape and intention, and the intentions of its narrator. Deformed as in misshapen, distorted, imperfect, flawed.

What writing (and/or art) projects are you working on now?

I’m working on a collection of stories and another book called Aug 9—Fog.

What have you read recently that youd like to recommend?

I’m reading A Journal of the Plague Year by Daniel Defoe. It is very grim and I am enjoying it! I also just bought Diane Williams’s Fine, Fine, Fine, Fine, Fine which I am grateful for, because her work revives me, always.

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