"If He Stays to See the Killing": An Interview with Paul Crenshaw

Paul Crenshaw’s stories and essays have appeared or are forthcoming in Best American Essays, anthologies by W.W. Norton and Houghton Mifflin, Glimmer Train, Ecotone, North American Review, and Brevity, among others. He teaches writing and literature at Elon University.

His essay, "This One Will Hurt You," appeared in Issue Sixty-Two of The Collagist.

Here, Paul Crenshaw talks with interviewer William Hoffacker about setting, violence, and direct address.

What sparked your decision to write this essay? How long was it between the day you described in this piece and your writing about it?

I knew shortly after it happened that I would write about it, although I only knew I would, not how or when or what the focus would be. It was a few years later before I actually wrote the essay. I don’t know if it needed time to spin around inside my head, or if I needed time removed from the event to see it more clearly, but I certainly needed time. We could quote Wordsworth here, but I’ll leave it at that. 

You devoted a number of words in this essay to describing the neighborhood in which the events take places, including the state of the surrounding houses and the people you witnessed moving in and out of them. Why did you feel it was important to capture the setting beyond just the porch and the backyard?

I’ve always been a descriptive writer, probably from reading Poe and Tolkien and Frank Herbert and others when I was young. I like detail, and sensory perception—I’m drawn to writers who transport me to the scene of their tragedy or triumph.

But description should always serve a second purpose, and in this essay the people I describe—the drunk couple, the drug dealers and the people who buy from them—are all avoiding responsibility. As was I, and the people with me, gathering to drink on a Sunday afternoon and yell at a TV screen. But we were confronted with a situation where we couldn’t avoid responsibility, and were forced to do something we had no desire to do. The violence inherent in that situation made it even more difficult to deal with, so to put it off, I focused on the minutiae of detail surrounding me—the light, the drug dealer’s house, the sun going down, anything to not have to think about what was coming, to avoid responsibility for a few minutes more, which also helped to build a bit of suspense.

There are moments in this essay, surprising because they are so few, when you use the second person in what I interpret as a direct address to the reader. Most bluntly, you say to us, “You should understand by now where this is going.” And soon afterward, you write, “And now you listen to me, for I want you to know what I did, what I think about sometimes late at night in a quiet house when everyone else is asleep.” To me these uses of “you” made the speaker’s voice seem both more confessional and somewhat defensive. What kind of effect did you intend from this fourth-wall-breaking technique?

I took that from Ursula Le Guin’s short story “The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas.” Le Guin asks the reader what he would add were he writing the story; she invites the reader to create his own version. By doing so, she makes the reader complicit in the creation of Omelas, and therefore complicit in the darkness hiding beneath the city, which forces the question on the reader whether he would stay or leave.

Here, though, as you point out, it doesn’t function in exactly the same way. The first example gives the reader a chance to leave; if he doesn’t, if he stays to see the killing, he becomes complicit, and is forced to question what he would have done in that instance. The second part is defensive, true, but it also, again, forces the reader to evaluate what he might have done. By defending my own actions, I force the reader to consider his or hers. 

I also feel compelled to ask about the title, “This One Will Hurt You.” Is this also a form of direct address? How did you come up with this title, and what does it mean to you?

I wish I had a great creation story for the title, but it really just came to me. Of course, it wasn’t as easy as that sentence suggests—I had the essay completed for a few weeks while I kicked titles around. The funny thing about titles is, once you get the right one, you know it’s the right one, because it works in more than one way.

This title is a direct address to the reader, another warning, like the ones I mentioned in the previous question: “This is going to hurt you—you might not want to read it.”

It’s also, in a more subtle way, about what I do in the essay. Not only that what I had to do was violent, and I could be capable—even as an act of mercy—of something so violent, but that the things we do often wound us in places we can’t see.

Finally, the act of writing itself can injure, and if you read my work, you might be hurt. At least I hope so. I certainly don’t want readers to feel nothing.

What writing projects are you working on now?

Over the summer I finished a novel set in an old tuberculosis sanatorium near where I grew up, so I’ve been writing short essays until I’m ready for another big project (which will be soon). Many of these essays recently have been on the military. I joined the Army National Guard in 1990, and was in Basic Training when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. Over the years I’ve been slowly putting together a collection of military essays, and I want to finish it finally.    

What have you read recently that you’d like to recommend?

Thrown, by Kerry Howley. A Ph.D. student becomes enthralled in the world of mixed martial arts, which is not a great way to describe it, but trust me that the book is better than that description. The Shell Collector, by Anthony Doerr, a collection of short stories that take on the feel of myth and magic. And I just re-read Brave New World, one of those books everyone should come back to every few years.

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An Interview-in-Excerpts with Elizabeth Rosner

Elizabeth Rosner is the author of two highly acclaimed bestselling novels, The Speed of Light and Blue Nude.  Her newest books are Electric City, a novel, and Gravity, a poetry collection (both published this month).  Born in Schenectady, NY (aka "Electric City"), she is a graduate of Stanford University, UC Irvine, and the University of Queensland (Australia).  She has been living and teaching in Berkeley, CA for 30 years.  Her essays and poems have appeared in the NY Times Magazine, Elle, Poetry, Catamaran and many other publications.

An excerpt of her novel, Electric City, appeared in Issue Sixty-Three of The Collagist.

Here, she answers questions in the form of excerpts from her collection of poetry, Gravity.

 What is writing like?

         When this page fills with charcoal secrets,

         I will remember how edges and outlines resonate,

         how to bring the scene all the way back.

         I will erase this world into light.

What isn’t writing like?

         People without freedom

         are waiting for answers.

 

         Behind me,

         the blue sky whitens.

 

         At this time of day

         nothing is longer than a minute,

         even when I am finally free of breath.

When you do it, why?

         You said it was no way to make a living.

         You loved books, but wanted me to use my hands.

         I wanted to make something out of nothing,

         out of air, words. 

When you don’t, why?

            this is what I need you to understand

            that the grief is part of this scene

            it belongs here

            and every stone is its own piece

            the sharp-edged ones

            the cracked, imperfect ones

            those shaped like fists or eggs or bones

            they speak in the language of the river

                        AND ALSO:

            (there is always a risk

            in the naming of

            things in the naming

            of oneself)

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“History Doesn’t Compartmentalize”: An Interview with Madeline ffitch

Madeline ffitch was a founding member of the punk theater company The Missoula Oblongata.  Her stories have appeared in The Chicago Review, Vol. 1 Brooklyn, and Tin House.  Her first collection will be out in February on Publishing Genius Press.  She lives and writes in Appalachian Ohio where she homesteads and raises ducks, goats, and her small son, Nector.

Her story, "The Private Fight," appeared in Issue Sixty-Two of The Collagist.

Here, Madeline ffitch talks to interviewer Thomas Calder about family, race and history.

What initial idea led to this story’s creation?

One of the things that was happening around the time I began the story was that my uncle Kurt Vance, a tremendously significant loved figure in my life, an artist and meticulous thing-maker was dying of cancer. I was living very far away from him and encountering a lot of new ideas. He had been an intellectual mentor to me. When I encountered something I’d never heard of, a school of philosophy, a visual arts movement, some piece of history, I realized that I automatically would think of asking him to fill me in on it, on running any new idea by him, just to hear his take on it. And then I realized that I had no way to understand myself and my own mind without him to ricochet ideas off of, that I had no plan for how to continue my intellectual life once I couldn’t talk things over with him anymore. So I started writing from that place. When he was in the hospital a lot of people who loved him sent him messages and pieces of writing, and I sent a draft of the story for him to read, and he died not long after, and my aunt read it to him, and though it may be selfish, I’m glad to know he heard it. Some people say that their families hold them back from writing, but so much of what we understand about love and sadness and what matters, maybe everything, comes from being part of a family, and that’s always going to be difficult, so why not fight for your place in it with these people you love, especially the older people. Remember that they’ve been around the block. They can handle it. They probably understand your mind better than you think they do.

Time is a major issue in this piece. Historical events are both far and near to these characters. Could you talk more about both your approach in addressing this topic, as well as your own interest in the matter?

I had a teacher once, a white guy, who, when asked why he knew so much about the murder of Fred Hampton (the young black panther leader killed by police officers in Chicago in 1969) said, “I’m an American. Of course I’m interested.” And I think that’s part of it. I don’t understand why it seems natural that contemporary American fiction, or fiction written by young people, should not show an awareness of history, or that if it does, it must be done in a self-conscious way or done with capital letters. If you know your neighbors or your family members or anyone besides yourself and other people your own age, you are hearing about and talking about history, and understanding yourself in a political and historical context, and there’s nothing broad or grand about that. It’s just true. But also, I am interested in the way we don’t understand history, or the way that we have heard it retold in these talismanic stories from people we love or are close to, people with a limited and flawed perspective. It helps us understand and misunderstand each other, and I think that’s a vital place for storytelling. For example, as a young white writer, I don’t think there’s any way that I can “get it right” when writing about the black panther party, but I also think it’s worthwhile to acknowledge and normalize the wild fact that history doesn’t compartmentalize. Right? Black history affects white people and black people for sure know that white history affects them. And the ways that we understand and misunderstand each others’ history has real effects on our lives. This understanding and misunderstandings of history are vital places to begin stories from.

I also think that white writers want to leave race alone unless they feel they have something wise to say about it. But that’s such a problem because most white people, most people, surely most writers, aren’t particularly wise about race, yet the history of race relations in America permeates our personal family and regional histories. So when white writers think they can just opt out so that they don’t get it wrong, I think it creates a sort of falseness in contemporary fiction, where white writers don’t notice race or history unless the story is about those topics in capital letters. This ends up colluding with the false idea of a “postracial” society or an apolitical society. It’s really false, but in fiction, it’s also aesthetically false. And it’s boring and safe. So I’m interested in making a mess, getting some things wrong, representing the ways that we misunderstand each other, showing perhaps a foolish but sincere perspective, mostly continuing to write as if history and race matter and are present in the American human experience still because they most certainly do and are.

There are so many heartbreaking lines in this story, whether it be Murray Rose’s notion of diplomacy or Maxwell Conley’s view of love. I experienced a deep sadness while reading this—but that sort of good deep sadness that reminds a reader they’re alive. What was it like living with and creating these characters?

A friend once talked about making post-apocalyptic art, meaning art that will hold up around a fire or in a gutted building the same way it could hold up in a more refined context. I am interested in making stories that acknowledge vitality, that reject the cultural paradigm of the modern malaise. I believe there are other true stories to be told than stories of disconnection, isolations, jadedness, and boredom. I want to confront the assumption that disconnection is what we have to write about, and the only other option is to have a story where people are stupidly “happy” or something. I don’t think that deep sadness comes from being disconnected. I think it comes from being connected. And what seems more true to me is how connected people are, how relentlessly involved and passionate people are. That’s why we can’t get away from each other, and that’s what we love and what we hate, and that’s what’s so difficult, and that’s what breaks our hearts.

I’m curious to hear more about your life as a homesteader in Appalachian, Ohio. What’s your schedule like, as far as writing, homesteading and a raising a young son goes?

Many people fear that having a life outside of writing will make them be less productive writers. I’m not sure if that’s true, but I know that it would be extremely convenient for me to blame my son, my goats, my ducks, my garden, or the maple trees when I don’t getting writing done. I feel I could only do that if I could honestly say to myself that in all the years before I lived this way I actually used every available moment to write at my maximum productivity. And I certainly didn’t. I’m not very sympathetic to those who complain about how hard it is to get the work done. For me, it’s mind over matter. When the blank page threatens, I remember that as a woman writer, my forerunners are people who got the work done no matter what. Ursula LeGuin did it after her kids were in bed, Grace Paley did it and was an amazing activist, very available to her community, Mourning Dove wrote in a tent after a long day of picking fruit. One of my favorite writers is Louise Erdrich and I just read her account of how much reading she got done while breastfeeding. When the goat is milked, and Nector is sleeping, and there’s a bit of electricity, I figure I have an hour or so, and I open up the word processor and write as much as I can. My partner is building us a house right now, actually as we speak, so I do a lot of writing in a small shack that we use as a kitchen, or another shack that we built above our workshop. Both have woodstoves.

I like working outside. I like working with my hands. I like knowing how to build things and make things. I think it’s necessary to be available to your community, to choose some activism to be involved in, to get a little embarrassed with rhetoric. I like to read wild and stylish stuff, quiet slow stuff, but also to read pamphlets, and wing nut confessional letters in all capitals. Maintaining my place in a life that includes writers, artists, farmers, activists, conspiracy theorists, parents, children, goats, and grandparents overall only helps my writing and my intellectual life. Or wait- that makes it sound way too designed. Actually, it’s just the way my life has to be, and I couldn’t imagine it any other way. Also, I should mention that recently, I became a doctoral student at Ohio University, which is in Athens, the nearest town, and that has helped me to find balance and not become, as my urban friends feared, a zombie hippie wife. It has also helped me earn a regular paycheck for the first time in a few years, which is good when you are starting a family.

I know your collection Valparaiso, Round the Horn is forthcoming from Publishing Genius Press. Congrats! Are you currently working on anything new, or are you taking a breather?

Thank you! I feel so great about working with PGP. Adam Robinson is so true blue and all-in. His project is so fearless, so joyously confrontational to drudgery and to old ruts. He just mailed me a big stack of PGP books, and I’m so honored to be in the company of those other PGP writers, a pushy and wild and elegant bunch. I’m hoping to put out a collection of plays—I’m still collaborating on one with my brother, it’s about snake bites—and I’m working on a novel too. I think I might not get to take breathers anymore. Best to just keep writing because the breathers are already built in with the ducks, the goats, the garden, and the baby.

Who are you currently reading?

I am always re-reading Grace Paley, and Mary Ruefle’s book Madness, Rack, and Honey, which my friend, the poet Heather Christle gave me a couple years ago. I still feel kind of like I stole her book because I was looking at it so hungrily I think she felt like she had to give it to me. But then, the poets are always schooling me. I read Gertrude Stein for the first time this fall, and can’t believe it was for the first time, it felt so reasonable and familiar. I’m also reading Charles Johnson’s book Middle Passage. And of course, I am very often reading the classic, The Little Fur Family, which is a work of genius. I have two editions, both with fur covers. I think I like it more than Nector does.

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"I Wish I Didn't Know the Meaning of the Word Regret": An Interview with Victoria Cho

Victoria Cho's writing has appeared in Apogee Journal, Quarter After Eight, Word Riot, and Mosaic Art and Literary Journal. She was born in Virginia and now writes, collages, and plays in New York.

Her poem, "a foreign body," appeared in Issue Sixty-Two of The Collagist.

Here, she speaks with interviewer Christina Oddo about form, the theme of regret, and the most violent image in the poem.

Each line, with the exception of the last four, appears in sentence form. What about the content prompted this structure?

The arc of the poem as well as my background as a fiction writer inspired this structure. I’m used to writing in complete thoughts and having nice subject-verb agreements. Hence, most of these lines are complete sentences. For the final four lines, which I consider the poem’s climax, I felt fragments were more suitable because they indicated a disorienting emotional intensity. Maybe this is a technique I can incorporate in my fiction!

What image stands out the most to you in terms of illustrating the relationship between the narrator and the lumberjack?

The most striking image in this poem for me is: “An alien slithers down my throat and corners my spleen.” It is the most violent image in the poem, and it refers to the body in a very unsexy way. Having this unsexy reference complicates the relationship between the woman and the lumberjack and her expectations of sex.

I am especially drawn to the line “I wish I didn’t know the meaning of the word regret.” How does regret weave its way through the lines?

I invite the reader to explore the theme of regret on a line-by-line basis but will say that I’m simultaneously curious and enraged by the association of sex with shame, which can lead to the emotion of regret. A person may also act towards someone else due to pressures or expectations he/she feels, and actions in this regard can also lead to regret. I feel lust, shame, connection, and regret can be conflated, especially when a person is just starting to explore his/her sexuality.

What are you currently reading?

I’m reading stories by Gabriel Garcia Marquez and poems by Myung Mi Kim. The stories are weirdly beautiful and helpful, as my own fiction is becoming more surreal. Marquez writes from the perspectives of ghosts and reflections! Kim’s poems are some of the most abstract I’ve ever read. She plays with translation and disorientation. One poem is all slashes and periods. Another poem takes the shape of a quiz asking for English translations of Korean phrases. I enjoy her dissection of what gets lost in translation.

What are you writing?

I’m experimenting with various genres and am working on short stories, a novel, and more poems. I hope to write more nonfiction, too. This is a tough question for me to answer, as even I am not sure what I’m writing. I only know that I’m doing it.

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